V6 thread, no bs, OT is tolerated

[marcucci]

I found one comment online that says that the 04+ J blocks are shorter than previous ones. Specifically, that the block and cams are .5" shorter and newer motors won't work w/newer transmissions. As near as I can tell-

- The 01-03 J32A1 and A2 uses a 12100-P8E-306 front head casting.
- This front head casting is also used on 01-02 MDX, 02-04 Odyssey, 03-04 Pilot.
- The block casting on the 99-04 Odyssey and 03-04 Pilot for these years was the same.
- The block casting on the 01-02 MDX and 01-03 J32A1 and A2 (CL) were the same.

It's not foolproof but I would say that the 99-04 Pilot and Odyssey and 01-03 CL probably shared the same engine architecture (and 01-02 MDX). The MDX/CL block casting may be difference, but they are the same as each other, and the heads are the same. I'd guess that there was a demarcation around 03 for the MDX and 04 for everything else (remember, the new CL was introduced at this time) for the new architecture.

There's nothing that crosses w/the J32A1/A2 crank, but most of the 3.5's ARE the same, with a change in numbers coming in 03/05 depending on model. If there's an issue w/cranks, all indicators are that they changed in 03 for the MDX and 05 for the Pilot and Odyssey.

Reference my parts chart posted on page 2 for more info.

I'm guessing the true test would come in getting some engines and measuring them, unfortunately.

I still hold that just doing a swap w/the newer motors/trans would probably be the best avenue.

[2000h22a]

Ive got a hookup at LKQ, I think i can get a j35a1 for around $400, that said, I can use the J32a2/3/4 heads and IM along with the 03 TL type-s MT wiring harnass ($316 Brand new from acura) With the MT TL/CL ECU. That should solve ALL of our wiring issues and as long as the ecu doesn't have a problem with the block (seeing as how the sensors are in the head, it shouldnt) we're golden. Pair it with the Accord 6MT its looking like an easy process on paper. I do however, want to look into swapping the 3.7L internals, with the RL pistons (for valve clearance) into the J35 block. This is starting to look like a frankenstein build... I like it...

EDIT: Given that the 3.7l MDX has a stroke of 96, and the 3.5l has a stroke of 93, BUT the rod length for the MDX is 155.5 compared to the 158.5 of the 3.5l. is it a safe bet for me to assume that the valve/piston clearance will be good?

[marcucci]

I found some detail at v6performance.net about a guy (NVA-AV6) that has a supercharged J32A2 that he build w/MDX 3.7L internals. He has claimed that the snout length is shorter on the 3.7L crank, but compensated for it by cutting off a section from a crank and using a longer bolt. Interesting stuff.

He claims the 3.2L A1/A2 uses a wider-width timing belt. Doesn't say if the 2nd gen V6's are all narrower like the 3.7L or not.

Also, the rod journal diameter is 2mm larger on the MDX (3.7?) than the RL or Pilot.

[2000h22a]

I will have an extra crankshaft (from the 3.5) once the engine assembly begins so the longer bolt idea may be good to try. I will be using the MDX rods and crank, so i know the rods will work. the cam gears are probably interchangeable to solve the timing belt issue, ive heard about that when using the 3.2 heads but im not too worried about it

[prelude1897]

In for the build thread...If you can fit an LS1 into a 4th Gen or even a civic hatch, then fitting a v6 accord motor into a 5th gen shouldn't be as hard. It's a matter of figuring out all the wiring and doing a little cutting here and there. Lets make it happen. Of course there'll be some haters and people asking why you're wasting your money, but remember, your car is definitely going to be unique and at least you can say you've done the swap and it works.

[2000h22a]

yeah I've all ready had alot of haters (several of them close friends, one reason the thread and info about it is staying on ntpog, plus i want the site to hold all the info and it not be strewn about the internet) try to put me down about it, but I could care less, Ill probably put a "I <3 Haters" sticker on the window when im done with it.

[marcucci]

The LS1 is a beast, and so are other motors, but any Honda engine will require FAR less work than any other engine swap, save for a 4-cyl Honda motor. and then, this one will require far less $$ than any non-F or H 4cyl.

Besides, the weight penalty for the J series is not bad, 6MT isn't much heavier than the H, and the J block/heads aren't much heavier than the H22. I still need to get a scale and weigh one, but I'm thinking part for part there's a 75-100lb delta here. That may sound like a lot, but it's ~3% of vehicle weight. Added to the wrong end, but hell, you can fix that with springs and for ~300whp I'd take a 200lb penalty and not complain.

[marcucci]

Interesting update... I ordered a couple of valves and can update this list:

J30A1 '98-02 AV6: 34mm/29mm (intake/exhaust)
J30A4 '03+ AV6: 35mm/30mm

J32A1 '01-03' TL/CL: 34mm/30mm
J32A2 '01-03 TL-S/CL-S: 36mm/30mm
J32A4 '04+ TL: 35mm/30mm

J35A1 '99-01 Odyssey: 34mm/29mm
J35A4 '02-04 Odyssey: 35mm/30mm

Turns out that:

J35A5 '03-06 MDX: 35mm/30mm
J35A6 '05-07 Odyssey LX, EX (not Touring) + '05 Pilot: 35mm/30mm
J35A7 '08+ Odyssey EXL/EXL-T: 36mm/30mm
J35A8 '07-08 TL Type S: 36mm/30mm
J35Z4 '09+ Pilot: 36mm/30mm

J37A1 '07+ MDX: 36mm/30mm
J37A4 '09+ TL Type S: 36mm/30mm

I verified that they all use a 36mm intake valve today in person. The exhaust valve p/n is the same 30mm one used on the other engines above. The intake valve is a new p/n vs the J32A2 but measures 36mm OD. It looks like the seat OD might only be 35mm but it's hard to say (I only measured a new valve, not the head). 1mm isn't much but I thought it was an interesting data point to add.

Acura uses separate p/ns for the J35A3 and J37A2 (RL) which I have on order to check out...

[marcucci]

I have been doing a lot more research on this in anticipation of a swap into an S2k:

http://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=768027

http://www.jswaps2000.com/blog.php

I posted up some additional info @ s2ki centered around the newer engines and the J37A2 and J37A8. These would be sweet engines to drop into any vehicle... more wiring than the 03 CL-S but probably worth it. The upside is that you can use the 09 TL Type S ECU which was available w/6MT. Assuming it doesn't barf b/c the SH-AWD system isn't there, but I don't see any codes in the MIL list for it?

[chase]

I didn't think that a 6MT was available on the 2009 TLs. They are available on the 2010 TLs but as you said, only on the SH-AWD models.

I also didn't think the 4th gen (2009+) TLs had a Type S model designation yet.

[Knight511]

I am sure he means the 3.7Lin the 09+ TL-SHAWD.... as opposed to 3.5L in the base TL.

[marcucci]

I did mean that but he's right- turns out there was no 6MT offered in 09... just 07-08 (3.5) and 2010 (3.7).

04-06 had a 6MT offered on the base 3.2L, all years.

[924wsludefan]

i wanna know what obd1 v6s were availible with manual trannys so that i can swap one into my 4th gen 4ws

[preludestud11]

^^ nsx and legend. But the j is far superior to the c. You can run an obd11 motor in your car, just be prepared to spend 2-3 grand on engine management.

[marcucci]

The J is only superior to the C's in the Legends. The NSX C is still a much better motor, but availability and cost are two big deal-killers there.

A far easier route would be OBD2 motor with standalone management. You can do that for <$2k but tuning will push it to $2k unless you've got free dyno time and/or a good tuner.

[marcucci]

Further update to the valve size "guide"

Originally Posted by marcucci

J30A1 '98-02 AV6: 34mm/29mm (intake/exhaust)
J30A4 '03+ AV6: 35mm/30mm

J32A1 '01-03' TL/CL: 34mm/30mm
J32A2 '01-03 TL-S/CL-S: 36mm/30mm
J32A4 '04+ TL: 35mm/30mm

J35A1 '99-01 Odyssey: 34mm/29mm
J35A4 '02-04 Odyssey: 35mm/30mm
J35A5 '03-06 MDX: 35mm/30mm
J35A6 '05-07 Odyssey LX, EX (not Touring) + '05 Pilot: 35mm/30mm
J35A7 '08+ Odyssey EXL/EXL-T: 36mm/30mm
J35A8 '07-08 TL Type S: 36mm/30mm
J35Z4 '09+ Pilot: 36mm/30mm

J37A1 '07+ MDX: 36mm/30mm
J37A4 '09+ TL Type S: 36mm/30mm

J35A3 '06-08 RL: 36mm/30mm

J37A2 '09+ RL: 36mm/30mm

So it looks like all the new motors have pretty beefy valves (these are larger than a H22), and while the 3.5 and 3.7 have more displacement per cylinder, they are still pretty square (vs. the H22 which has more stroke) so I think I'm still on point when I say that these motors, with better rods/valve springs, will support much higher RPMs than stock.

[Kronis]

So when is the ETA of this thing at the meets?

[2000h22a]

Originally Posted by Kronis

So when is the ETA of this thing at the meets?

Was this directed at me?

[Kronis]

^ At whoever is doing this swap. I'm not sure if you both are or Todd is just researching like a mo'fo for ya.

[2000h22a]

todds working on an s2k, and i'm preparing to buy the standalone and complete harness. I have the motor and tranny all ready

[preludestud11]

Just more info for you guys. I found a tb adapter plate that is going to work with my j35 type s intake manifold. In order to use a normal throttle body instead of a drivebywire a karcepts makes this for the k20 guys.

http://www.karcepts.com/shop/product.php?id_product=4

My friend was over tonight working on his k20 hatch setup so I took his adapter, and the adapter bolt perfect onto the j intake manifold, so now you can use pretty much any k series tb.

[marcucci]

Nice find!

[preludestud11]

They are actually making a new adapter right now. The new adapter has a modified IACV chamber. Basically moves the iacv to the bottom of the tb and gives you the needed vacuum port. I will update with more info after i have installed it.