5g sunroof conversion

sean1121 · 10-20-2007, 12:28 PM

5g Sunroof Conversion
October 15, 2007

Kevin (sean1121)
Rich (preludestud11)
Kevin (slatelude)
Doug (Xander)

Overview:
The 5g sunroof conversion is not a simple drop in mod, there's a lot of fabrication required to make it look “stock”. The entire sunroof assembly must be removed from the inside of the car, and the 5g assembly modified to fit. The headliners also have to be modified as the 5g assembly is longer, this part depends on if you have the high mount 3rd brake light or not. Please read the entire procedure before you decide to attempt the conversion. Assorted pics of the conversion can be found here: http://simnets.com/gallery2/v/prelude/5g_moonroof/

What you need:
0. Entire 5g sunroof assembly
1. Metric sockets and wrenches
2. Cutting wheel/Grinder
3. Phillips screw driver
4. Soldering iron
5. LED’s
6. Dremel
7. Time and patience
8. Friend or someone you bribed to help
9. Helms/Service Manual

Standard Disclaimer:
Be it knownst that NTPOG isn't responsible for your own intelligence (or lack thereof). Practice common sense when working with power tools (or non power tools for that matter) and around jacks, lifts, etc. NEVER get under a vehicle that isn't supported by at least 2 jack stands AND a floor jack. You should also buy a pair of wheel chocks and get to know them well. That being said...

Removing the 5g Assembly:
If you have to remove the 5g assembly from the donor car it is very similar to removing the 4g assembly. I suggest you follow the steps outlined in the service manual.

Step 0 – Modify the 5g Assembly
The brackets and motor mount must be modified to fit in the 4g. The 2 brackets in the rear need to be cut flush with the assembly. Remove the motor from the housing and cut the bracket as shown below. The lower lip around the interior side of the sunroof opening needs to be shortened for the trim to fit flush. You can either cut it or fold it in half. To fold it use a pair of channel locks or pliers and slowly bend it every inches or so. Once you’ve made a crease you can bend it in half. If you have the center dome light you also need to modify the hole in the sunroof assembly where it mounts. Using a dremel cut away most of the rear part of the hole (pic below), use the dome light to test fitment.

Stock 4g and 5g side by side:

Stock 5g Assembly:

Scoring marks showing where you need to cut:

After cutting:

Center dome light cutout:

Bending the lower lip:

Step 1 – Remove Interior
I recommend removing both front seats as its much easier to remove and install the sunroofs with them out of the way.

The front and rear headliners need to be removed. Remove the rear headliner first (~10 clips). To remove the front headliner you need to remove the front visors (3 Phillips screws each), passenger pillar handle (2 Phillips screws), driver and passenger pillar molding (clips), dome light (2 Phillips screws), high mount 3rd brake light (2 10mm bolts, if equipped), and the trim around the sunroof opening. The front headliner is held up by 3 clips, one next to each door and one in the front between the visors. Be very careful with the front headliner, it's easy to damage it.

Step 2 – Remove the 4g Sunroof Assembly

There are ten 10mm bolts holding the sunroof assembly to the roof. First, unplug the drain tubes on all 4 corners. Then remove all 10 bolts and pull the sunroof assembly out of the car.

Step 3 – Modify and Install High Mount 3rd Brake Light

If you don’t have the high mount 3rd brake light you can skip this part. Remove the 3rd brake light. The stock bulb assembly will not fit as the sunroof motor is now in the way. I used perf board and LED’s to replace the stock bulbs. I’m not going to go into detail on the LED board, the way I did it is not the only way to go. The 2 plastic brackets on the 3rd brake light need to be cut off for it to fit around the sunroof motor. Reinstall the metal bracket and reinstall the 3rd brake light.

Prototyping LED layout:

Testing:

Testing fitment:

Step 4 – Install the 5g Sunroof Assembly

Install the 5g assembly in the car. There are 6 bolts that support the modified assembly, install and torque them all.

Step 5 – Install Front Headliner

Install the front headliner. Install the trim piece around the sunroof opening. Install the dome light or vtec map light. Don't forget to plug them in! If you have the center dome light you must drill a couple new holes for mounting screws. Only one of the stock screw holes lines up. Reinstall the visors, pillar covers, and passenger pillar handle. Also, plug in the sunroof connector.

Front headliner and dome light installed:

Step 6 – Install Rear Headliner

To install the rear headliner all but the 4 mounting brackets in the corners need to be cut. The headliner will sag a little unless modified. I used plumbers tape and some metal rods to help support the rear hardliner and keep it flush with the roof of the car. I used quick setting epoxy to secure a bolt to the sunroof so I’d have a place to support the rear headliner. Once the rear headliner is installed put the bolt through one of the holes in the plumbers tape and secure it with a nut.

Cut off brackets:

Support mod:

Bolt epoxyed to the roof to support the rear headliner:

Completed pics:

10-20-2007, 07:26 PM

does that grey slider even slide back? i always thought it wouldnt but idk

sean1121 · 10-20-2007, 07:51 PM

Sure does!

marcucci · 10-20-2007, 11:20 PM

Nice... I have to say that I am surprised it worked out that well!

sebax's_sh · 10-21-2007, 03:58 PM

Looks nice!

sean1121 · 10-21-2007, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marcucci

Nice... I have to say that I am surprised it worked out that well!

Ye of little faith! Didn't you see the "5 lug conversion butcher job" thread on PO? After that there was no way I couldn't finish it!

Quote:

Originally Posted by sebax's_sh

Looks nice!

Thanks guys!

sean1121 · 10-24-2007, 05:20 PM

Bump

Writeup posted.

prelude1897 · 10-26-2007, 04:18 PM

nicely done

digitaltrance · 10-26-2007, 07:29 PM

VERY Nice!!! Good Job, thanks for the write up!

slatelude · 10-29-2007, 09:02 PM

yeah, looks very nice Kev (the conversion and the write up)

now I just need to make it over to Rich's and p/u that 3rd brake light headliner so I can get mine wrapped up. I love it though, been so nice when its been cool outside but the sun is up and it comes in and warms you sooo nicely.

one more step to making the 4th gen "an even better best prelude", what next?!?! LOL

sean1121 · 10-30-2007, 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slatelude

yeah, looks very nice Kev (the conversion and the write up)

Thanks!

Quote:

Originally Posted by slatelude

one more step to making the 4th gen "an even better best prelude", what next?!?! LOL

What's next? LED tails? I've got a few idea's up my sleeve!

Lude_lover · 10-30-2007, 05:19 PM

Did you fix the brake light "light" on your dash

preludestud11 · 10-30-2007, 06:43 PM

lookin good!

sean1121 · 11-03-2007, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lude_lover

Did you fix the brake light "light" on your dash

Not yet. I'd like to make it work correctly rather than remove the bulb.

sean1121 · 11-27-2007, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lude_lover

Did you fix the brake light "light" on your dash

I've been looking at this and the only thing I can come up with is grounding the green wire that goes to the left tail light. That would bypass the high mount brake light failure circuit, but would also bypass the left tail light failure checks as well. Since I'm going to be doing LED tails as well I'll probably just remove the bulb from the cluster.

chase · 11-27-2007, 12:43 PM

You should be able to fake the lights....

From the diagram above...you need to replace the bulbs/lamps each with a resistor so that the inductors relays closed. As long as the right range of current is flowing through those inductors (no open lamps) then the alarm shouldn't go off.

Grant it that I haven't tried this, but it should work...you may need to play with different resistor values to find out how much current the inductors need to hold the relay closed.
Or find out what the lamps' power is rated out and calculate the resistence...

sean1121 · 11-27-2007, 01:30 PM

How would I make that work with the LED 3rd brake light?

chase · 11-27-2007, 05:52 PM

are you asking how to make the alarm indicator functional including checking your LEDs? that could be somewhat complicated...I would have to think about it some...

It may work depending on how you want to wire the LEDs. Most people wire LEDS in a series of parallel diodes which would complicate the alarm condition. It should work so that when any diode failed, the indicator would illuminate. That would be difficult.

If you want to just bypass the alarm for the 3rd brake light however and install LEDs, that shouldn't be a problem. My previously posted "theoretical" modification should work the same way...

Green/Blue wire ---+------LED structure (including resistors)-------+---GND
..........................|_ _ _ Resistor_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _|

Green/Red wire ----------Resistor---------------------------------GND

It will take some trial and error...
A good place to start would be to take some electrical measurements if possible of the stock system.
GRN/BLU to GND Voltage
GRN/RED to GND Voltage
Current through Lamp or Resistence of Lamp
(remember that all of these would need to be taken when the lamps on lit except for resistence)

Then figure out how to duplicate that current so that the relay stays on which will keep the brake indicator off.

sean1121 · 11-27-2007, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chase

are you asking how to make the alarm indicator functional including checking your LEDs? that could be somewhat complicated...I would have to think about it some...

No, way to complicated.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chase

If you want to just bypass the alarm for the 3rd brake light however and install LEDs, that shouldn't be a problem. My previously posted "theoretical" modification should work the same way...

A good place to start would be to take some electrical measurements if possible of the stock system.
GRN/BLU to GND Voltage
GRN/RED to GND Voltage
Current through Lamp or Resistence of Lamp
(remember that all of these would need to be taken when the lamps on lit except for resistence)

Then figure out how to duplicate that current so that the relay stays on which will keep the brake indicator off.

13.5 volts with the car idling. I'll check the resistance asap.

sean1121 · 11-27-2007, 06:39 PM

Resistance is 2.5 ohms.

chase · 11-28-2007, 08:50 AM

How are the LEDs wired? Do you have a schematic?

sean1121 · 11-28-2007, 09:15 AM

They're wired in series. 7 LEDs in each series. No schematic.

chase · 11-28-2007, 10:44 AM

what resistor(s) are you using along with the LEDs?
is there one resistor per series or one for the whole assembly?

sean1121 · 11-28-2007, 10:54 AM

The only resister is on the last series since there where only 3 LEDs left. No other resisters.

chase · 11-28-2007, 12:09 PM

so it looks like this?

.......................................GRN/BLU Wire
..............................................|
..........+------+-------+---------+
..........|.........|..........|.............+--LED--LED--LED--Resistor--------+----BLK (GND)
..........|.........|..........|.................................................. ............|
..........|.........|..........+--LED--LED--LED--LED--LED--LED--LED------+
..........|.........|.................................................. ........................|
..........|.........+--LED--LED--LED--LED--LED--LED--LED---------------+
..........|.................................................. ...................................|
..........+--LED--LED--LED--LED--LED--LED--LED----------------------+

Because that shouldn't work...you would virtually have a short from GRN/BLU to Ground.
There should be a resistor in each series of LED's to control the current through the LEDs.
The only way one resistor would work is if you did this:

.......................................GRN/BLU Wire
..............................................|
..........+------+-------+---------+
..........|.........|..........|.............+--LED--LED--LED------------------+--Resistor--BLK (GND)
..........|.........|..........|.................................................. ............|
..........|.........|..........+--LED--LED--LED--LED--LED--LED--LED------+
..........|.........|.................................................. ........................|
..........|.........+--LED--LED--LED--LED--LED--LED--LED---------------+
..........|.................................................. ...................................|
..........+--LED--LED--LED--LED--LED--LED--LED----------------------+

10-20-2007, 12:28 PM	#1
sean1121 Comfortably Numb Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Total Perspective Vortex Posts: 4,376	5g sunroof conversion 5g Sunroof Conversion October 15, 2007 Kevin (sean1121) Rich (preludestud11) Kevin (slatelude) Doug (Xander) Overview: The 5g sunroof conversion is not a simple drop in mod, there's a lot of fabrication required to make it look “stock”. The entire sunroof assembly must be removed from the inside of the car, and the 5g assembly modified to fit. The headliners also have to be modified as the 5g assembly is longer, this part depends on if you have the high mount 3rd brake light or not. Please read the entire procedure before you decide to attempt the conversion. Assorted pics of the conversion can be found here: http://simnets.com/gallery2/v/prelude/5g_moonroof/ What you need: 0. Entire 5g sunroof assembly 1. Metric sockets and wrenches 2. Cutting wheel/Grinder 3. Phillips screw driver 4. Soldering iron 5. LED’s 6. Dremel 7. Time and patience 8. Friend or someone you bribed to help 9. Helms/Service Manual Standard Disclaimer: Be it knownst that NTPOG isn't responsible for your own intelligence (or lack thereof). Practice common sense when working with power tools (or non power tools for that matter) and around jacks, lifts, etc. NEVER get under a vehicle that isn't supported by at least 2 jack stands AND a floor jack. You should also buy a pair of wheel chocks and get to know them well. That being said... Removing the 5g Assembly: If you have to remove the 5g assembly from the donor car it is very similar to removing the 4g assembly. I suggest you follow the steps outlined in the service manual. Step 0 – Modify the 5g Assembly The brackets and motor mount must be modified to fit in the 4g. The 2 brackets in the rear need to be cut flush with the assembly. Remove the motor from the housing and cut the bracket as shown below. The lower lip around the interior side of the sunroof opening needs to be shortened for the trim to fit flush. You can either cut it or fold it in half. To fold it use a pair of channel locks or pliers and slowly bend it every inches or so. Once you’ve made a crease you can bend it in half. If you have the center dome light you also need to modify the hole in the sunroof assembly where it mounts. Using a dremel cut away most of the rear part of the hole (pic below), use the dome light to test fitment. Stock 4g and 5g side by side: Stock 5g Assembly: Scoring marks showing where you need to cut: After cutting: Center dome light cutout: Bending the lower lip: Step 1 – Remove Interior I recommend removing both front seats as its much easier to remove and install the sunroofs with them out of the way. The front and rear headliners need to be removed. Remove the rear headliner first (~10 clips). To remove the front headliner you need to remove the front visors (3 Phillips screws each), passenger pillar handle (2 Phillips screws), driver and passenger pillar molding (clips), dome light (2 Phillips screws), high mount 3rd brake light (2 10mm bolts, if equipped), and the trim around the sunroof opening. The front headliner is held up by 3 clips, one next to each door and one in the front between the visors. Be very careful with the front headliner, it's easy to damage it. Step 2 – Remove the 4g Sunroof Assembly There are ten 10mm bolts holding the sunroof assembly to the roof. First, unplug the drain tubes on all 4 corners. Then remove all 10 bolts and pull the sunroof assembly out of the car. Step 3 – Modify and Install High Mount 3rd Brake Light If you don’t have the high mount 3rd brake light you can skip this part. Remove the 3rd brake light. The stock bulb assembly will not fit as the sunroof motor is now in the way. I used perf board and LED’s to replace the stock bulbs. I’m not going to go into detail on the LED board, the way I did it is not the only way to go. The 2 plastic brackets on the 3rd brake light need to be cut off for it to fit around the sunroof motor. Reinstall the metal bracket and reinstall the 3rd brake light. Prototyping LED layout: Testing: Testing fitment: Step 4 – Install the 5g Sunroof Assembly Install the 5g assembly in the car. There are 6 bolts that support the modified assembly, install and torque them all. Step 5 – Install Front Headliner Install the front headliner. Install the trim piece around the sunroof opening. Install the dome light or vtec map light. Don't forget to plug them in! If you have the center dome light you must drill a couple new holes for mounting screws. Only one of the stock screw holes lines up. Reinstall the visors, pillar covers, and passenger pillar handle. Also, plug in the sunroof connector. Front headliner and dome light installed: Step 6 – Install Rear Headliner To install the rear headliner all but the 4 mounting brackets in the corners need to be cut. The headliner will sag a little unless modified. I used plumbers tape and some metal rods to help support the rear hardliner and keep it flush with the roof of the car. I used quick setting epoxy to secure a bolt to the sunroof so I’d have a place to support the rear headliner. Once the rear headliner is installed put the bolt through one of the holes in the plumbers tape and secure it with a nut. Cut off brackets: Support mod: Bolt epoxyed to the roof to support the rear headliner: Completed pics: __________________ 4g prelude parts FS -93 Prelude Si 4ws - RIP -94 Prelude Si - Daily Last edited by sean1121; 11-03-2007 at 02:36 PM.

10-20-2007, 07:51 PM	#3
sean1121 Comfortably Numb Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Total Perspective Vortex Posts: 4,376	Sure does! __________________ 4g prelude parts FS -93 Prelude Si 4ws - RIP -94 Prelude Si - Daily

10-20-2007, 11:20 PM	#4
marcucci Administrator Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: D/FW, Texas Posts: 3,180	Nice... I have to say that I am surprised it worked out that well! __________________ Proud Sponsor of - http://www.ntpog.org - http://www.s2000.org 2001 Silverstone Metallic S2000

10-21-2007, 03:58 PM	#5
sebax's_sh Preludio. Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: F-Worth Posts: 84	Looks nice! __________________ http://imb69.mybrute.com

10-24-2007, 05:20 PM	#7
sean1121 Comfortably Numb Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Total Perspective Vortex Posts: 4,376	Bump Writeup posted. __________________ 4g prelude parts FS -93 Prelude Si 4ws - RIP -94 Prelude Si - Daily

10-20-2007, 07:26 PM	#2
lvlrkmart Guest Posts: n/a	does that grey slider even slide back? i always thought it wouldnt but idk

10-26-2007, 04:18 PM	#8
prelude1897 Retrofit Pimp Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: TX Posts: 918	nicely done

10-26-2007, 07:29 PM	#9
digitaltrance Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 188	VERY Nice!!! Good Job, thanks for the write up! __________________ -Charlie/prelude2005 -Representin' the 4th gen crew-

10-29-2007, 09:02 PM	#10
slatelude Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 26	yeah, looks very nice Kev (the conversion and the write up) now I just need to make it over to Rich's and p/u that 3rd brake light headliner so I can get mine wrapped up. I love it though, been so nice when its been cool outside but the sun is up and it comes in and warms you sooo nicely. one more step to making the 4th gen "an even better best prelude", what next?!?! LOL

10-30-2007, 05:19 PM	#12
Lude_lover Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: West Fort Worth Posts: 1,572	Did you fix the brake light "light" on your dash

10-30-2007, 06:43 PM	#13
preludestud11 Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 699	lookin good!

11-27-2007, 12:43 PM	#16
chase Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Mesquite, TX Posts: 92	You should be able to fake the lights.... From the diagram above...you need to replace the bulbs/lamps each with a resistor so that the inductors relays closed. As long as the right range of current is flowing through those inductors (no open lamps) then the alarm shouldn't go off. Grant it that I haven't tried this, but it should work...you may need to play with different resistor values to find out how much current the inductors need to hold the relay closed. Or find out what the lamps' power is rated out and calculate the resistence... __________________ Chase My 92 Si w/ JDM H22:

11-27-2007, 01:30 PM	#17
sean1121 Comfortably Numb Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Total Perspective Vortex Posts: 4,376	How would I make that work with the LED 3rd brake light? __________________ 4g prelude parts FS -93 Prelude Si 4ws - RIP -94 Prelude Si - Daily

11-27-2007, 05:52 PM	#18
chase Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Mesquite, TX Posts: 92	are you asking how to make the alarm indicator functional including checking your LEDs? that could be somewhat complicated...I would have to think about it some... It may work depending on how you want to wire the LEDs. Most people wire LEDS in a series of parallel diodes which would complicate the alarm condition. It should work so that when any diode failed, the indicator would illuminate. That would be difficult. If you want to just bypass the alarm for the 3rd brake light however and install LEDs, that shouldn't be a problem. My previously posted "theoretical" modification should work the same way... Green/Blue wire ---+------LED structure (including resistors)-------+---GND ..........................\|_ _ _ Resistor_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _\| Green/Red wire ----------Resistor---------------------------------GND It will take some trial and error... A good place to start would be to take some electrical measurements if possible of the stock system. GRN/BLU to GND Voltage GRN/RED to GND Voltage Current through Lamp or Resistence of Lamp (remember that all of these would need to be taken when the lamps on lit except for resistence) Then figure out how to duplicate that current so that the relay stays on which will keep the brake indicator off. __________________ Chase My 92 Si w/ JDM H22:

11-27-2007, 06:39 PM	#20
sean1121 Comfortably Numb Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Total Perspective Vortex Posts: 4,376	Resistance is 2.5 ohms. __________________ 4g prelude parts FS -93 Prelude Si 4ws - RIP -94 Prelude Si - Daily

11-28-2007, 08:50 AM	#21
chase Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Mesquite, TX Posts: 92	How are the LEDs wired? Do you have a schematic? __________________ Chase My 92 Si w/ JDM H22:

11-28-2007, 09:15 AM	#22
sean1121 Comfortably Numb Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Total Perspective Vortex Posts: 4,376	They're wired in series. 7 LEDs in each series. No schematic. __________________ 4g prelude parts FS -93 Prelude Si 4ws - RIP -94 Prelude Si - Daily

11-28-2007, 10:44 AM	#23
chase Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Mesquite, TX Posts: 92	what resistor(s) are you using along with the LEDs? is there one resistor per series or one for the whole assembly? __________________ Chase My 92 Si w/ JDM H22:

11-28-2007, 10:54 AM	#24
sean1121 Comfortably Numb Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Total Perspective Vortex Posts: 4,376	The only resister is on the last series since there where only 3 LEDs left. No other resisters. __________________ 4g prelude parts FS -93 Prelude Si 4ws - RIP -94 Prelude Si - Daily

11-28-2007, 12:09 PM	#25
chase Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Mesquite, TX Posts: 92	so it looks like this? .......................................GRN/BLU Wire ..............................................\| ..........+------+-------+---------+ ..........\|.........\|..........\|.............+--LED--LED--LED--Resistor--------+----BLK (GND) ..........\|.........\|..........\|.................................................. ............\| ..........\|.........\|..........+--LED--LED--LED--LED--LED--LED--LED------+ ..........\|.........\|.................................................. ........................\| ..........\|.........+--LED--LED--LED--LED--LED--LED--LED---------------+ ..........\|.................................................. ...................................\| ..........+--LED--LED--LED--LED--LED--LED--LED----------------------+ Because that shouldn't work...you would virtually have a short from GRN/BLU to Ground. There should be a resistor in each series of LED's to control the current through the LEDs. The only way one resistor would work is if you did this: .......................................GRN/BLU Wire ..............................................\| ..........+------+-------+---------+ ..........\|.........\|..........\|.............+--LED--LED--LED------------------+--Resistor--BLK (GND) ..........\|.........\|..........\|.................................................. ............\| ..........\|.........\|..........+--LED--LED--LED--LED--LED--LED--LED------+ ..........\|.........\|.................................................. ........................\| ..........\|.........+--LED--LED--LED--LED--LED--LED--LED---------------+ ..........\|.................................................. ...................................\| ..........+--LED--LED--LED--LED--LED--LED--LED----------------------+ __________________ Chase My 92 Si w/ JDM H22:

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